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pit- hair!!!

topic posted Sat, January 7, 2006 - 9:02 AM by  ailbhe
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in another unmentionable thread, pit-hair was brought up. i do not shave my pits , i havnt in about a year an a half, maybe even two years. it only grows to a certain length an i dont think its gross, but i do get comments sometimes. bellydancing with the pit-hair........comments please what do ya think? i have considered shaving it cause when im dancing i would rather think that people are enjoying my dancing instead of thinking " christ, get that girl a razer!!"
posted by:
ailbhe
Ireland
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  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sat, January 7, 2006 - 9:09 AM
    There is a very popular dancing troupe who's name escapes me, whom all have 'pit-hair'. Honestly, I don't prefer it myself. Either for watching or for having it. I can't stand the feeling of the hair rubbing against my body, just the thought makes me shudder. As a watcher, my eye goes straight to arm pit hair. Usually because it's something dark against lighter skin. It stands out and draws the eye. It makes me start thinking about things other than dancing. I find it very distracting. .. I find myself thinking.. "christ, get that girl a razer!!" actually.. heh.

    But this is just because in America it's not a cultural norm for women to sport natural hair. I've been conditioned to think that not shaving means unclean, or lazy, or poor, or dirty hippy, or any other number of stupid stereotypes that may or may not apply to the person.

    I think it's your choice, though I personally don't prefer it myself. But hey, everyone lives their own life. You should be true to who you are and not conform!! Like I have.. hehe..
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sat, January 7, 2006 - 9:12 AM
      um, WOW, and you didn't catch the sarcasm? Or notice the statement at the top of the tribe? JEBUS.
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sat, January 7, 2006 - 9:20 AM
        ....and my pit hair is doing fine, fanks.
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sat, January 7, 2006 - 10:01 AM
          so what's the vote? Do you guys shave or wax? I converted to waxing, myself, but hey, whatever...
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Sat, January 7, 2006 - 10:57 AM
            Epilation all the way baby!

            (Well, not ALL the way, obviously, some bits would be far too ouchy!)

            But whay stop at pits? Don't leave the eyebrows out!

            Come on now, fess up, who plucks?!
            • Re: pit- hair!!!

              Sat, January 7, 2006 - 5:29 PM
              I pluck!! it feels good, just like pulling out blackheads with pore strips and scrubbing dead skin off my heels.
            • Re: pit- hair!!!

              Sun, January 8, 2006 - 7:02 AM
              I pluck every day because it grows back so far. I shav everything else but again it needs doing every 2 or 3 days. I leave it a bit longer in the winter as less of you is on show, unless I'm seeing the boy that is.
              • Re: pit- hair!!!

                Sun, January 8, 2006 - 8:15 AM
                Gabby!

                I am an esthetician too, so all my waxing is free! HEHE!

                I do my own nails too... gel nails rock!!!!!!!!
              • Re: pit- hair!!!

                Fri, March 3, 2006 - 10:32 AM
                I plug or have mine threaded! if you haven't had a threading, get your butt out there and ask for it. It feels so gooooood.. It's like waxing but slower, and more precise = better shape in the end.

                I used to get mine waxed (i grow bushy eyebrows) but the estheticians could never wax them EVENLY... I'd alywas walk out looking like a child was playing around with my face. And now i've discovered with threading... you really can't mess up!

                I hate shaving! But I'm with Kaia on this one... It does make you feel CLEAN.

                Personally though, my eye isn't drawn to someone's hairy pits or legs or uni-brow. I don't care either way. I'm not offended or bothered if it's there, or if it's not!

                I actually find it wonderful when someone does preform with unshaven areas... it's a very brave thing to do. It really shows how comfortable you are in your own skin, I admire that!

                slowly but surely we will erase the ism's and stereotypes that fill our lovely world up!
                • Re: pit- hair!!!

                  Fri, March 3, 2006 - 1:10 PM
                  I meant pluck! not plug.. lmao
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: pit- hair!!!

                    Fri, March 3, 2006 - 1:24 PM
                    I've just recently learned about threading. I heard that it was very painful, but that it didnt cause bumps or ingrown hairs to form from irritation. What is your experience with it? Maybe I will try it some day.
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sat, January 7, 2006 - 10:47 AM
          I think we should reclaim the pit hair! There could be a thousand things that could 'distract' an audience member. Why should we as women feel boxed in by standards that were in place to keep women in their place?
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Sat, January 7, 2006 - 10:56 AM
            For me, I equate body hair with masculinity. That's why for me, I prefer clean shaven. However I'm lazy and since I wear pants mostly, I don't bother to shave my legs unless they will show. On a woman, I like smooth soft skin with minimal hair. On men, I like hair.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: pit- hair!!!

              Sat, January 7, 2006 - 3:26 PM
              i think this is true for me too.

              one dancer at tribal fusion faire was dancing, pretty, blahblah, and she raised her arms and .... hair. i looked at these 2 young girls who were mesmerized until .... hair. then they both scrunched their noses. i had to laugh. not the reaction i would want. scrunching noses.

              in germany they didn't shave but maybe that's changed in the past 20 years.
              • Re: pit- hair!!!

                Thu, January 12, 2006 - 1:35 AM
                It actually DID change in Germany... ;-)
                • Re: pit- hair!!!

                  Thu, January 12, 2006 - 1:27 PM
                  Hi Everyone... Luna from UNMATA here. I love threads about pit-hair. A few of you have mentioned our group in this thread because most of us don't shave and yes we are an award-winning troupe who travels the country teaching and performing... Imagine That!!!!

                  At the end of this post is a link to a short clip of UNMATA dancing at Rakkasah 2005 in case any of you haven't seen us yet.

                  I have a couple of comments about some trends that I picked up in this thread.

                  First. Hair is not dirty unless you don't clean it. You wash your head don't you? Well, I wash the hair on my legs and in my underarms, and even that hair so delicately nestled down in the lotus... Don't you????

                  Second. A lot of you have mentioned that you don't think hair goes with a costume and that your eye is drawn only to the body hair. I understand this, and all of us in UNMATA encourage you to stare and stare at our cute pits, stare as fixed and rigidly as you dare... Go ahead! You don't have to feel bad about staring. We understand you aren't used to the style, but eventually you won't even see it anymore. Or at least you'll be able to understand and acknowlege that hair DOES grow in female airpits, too. And perhaps ask yourself why it isn't considered gross on a man, but it is on a woman? FUNNY! And then maybe you'll be able to appreciate the dancing and the amount of work that has gone into the rest of the performance...

                  Third. Growing your hair out does change your life. Physically, while growing your hair out, it gets easier after about a month, when your body readjusts to having hair there. You hair helps keep your body temperature balanced. You sweat less and it becomes less noticable to you. You realize how soft and perfectly fit to your body it becomes. And then you might decide to shave it off now and then like getting a hair cut. I do. Mentally, not being afraid to sport your hair gives you confidence and you believe in yourself not because someone has given you the social thumbs up, but because you aren't afraid of yourself.

                  I am not saying it isn't hard. As a group UNMATA's had to put up with an amazing amount of verbal degradation and abuse just for leaving something that grows naturally on the body. It's caused tears for sure.

                  But things have changed. The first year we began to compete, none of our judges comments were about our intricate choreographies or technical savvy. They were about our costumes and our armpit hair. By the next year, after we'd been circulated through the community, there wasn't a single armpit mention.

                  Imagine that!
                  Here's the clip:
                  www.unmata.com/files/Rakk...-001-01.mpg
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: pit- hair!!!

                    Thu, January 12, 2006 - 1:51 PM
                    Thanks for the clip! You´re gorgeous!!!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: pit- hair!!!

                    Mon, January 16, 2006 - 7:04 AM
                    Beautiful video...I wasn´t at all distracted by the pit hair...the coreography was beautiful and U guys are technically awsome!! Personal options on hair length will never stop what comes from the heart...Congratulations!!!!!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: pit- hair!!!

                    Tue, January 17, 2006 - 9:49 AM
                    I say flash the fuzzy pit with pride...well I don't actually say that but....I have pit hair and I'm comfortable with it!

                    I also shave them from time to time, when the mood strikes or if the costume/outfit calls for it in my opinion.

                    I'm down with the ladies shaving waxing lazering or NOT on any or all parts of your bodies that make YOU feel good about yourselves, more comfortable, whatever.

                    Personally I'm not down with conformity and forget societal norms. Who cares?! Not me!

                    Speaking about body hair and norms...
                    At one point I shaved my entire head of very thick long hair off. It was liberating for me and actually looked very chic, believe it or not.

                    Back to pits...
                    A few ladies in Ultra Gypsy don't shave their pits either, others do...we don't really talk about it much, no one seems to care much. This is the way it ought to be in my opinion.

                    I did once get fired from a long standing resturaunt gig and I have reason to believe it was because of my fuzzy pits. I had been wearing the FCBD attire for a short while post FCBD. After I liberated myself from the choli and opted to don the coin bra alone for the first few months the patrons got to see what had been hiding out underneath that choli for so many years. I guess they just couldn't reconcille their feelings about my damned pits even though my dancing was the same as it ever had been. A lot of the patrons had the gall to talk to me about the pits and tell me it was unlady like, that I wasn't taking care of myself and that it was distasteful. I lost the job without much of an explaination about why. It seemed really silly to me. But I took it hard at the time, that was how I paid my rent.

                    I'll conclude with this...
                    I'm not about to go changing what feels right to me for anyone elses benefit. If I ever do start shaving em again with any regularity it will be to please me!

                    Jill Parker
                    www.ultragypsy.com

                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: pit- hair!!!

                    Tue, October 23, 2007 - 6:22 AM
                    Your troupe is actually one of my favs that I found on Youtube.

                    Arm pit hair, is natural... It is unatural to shave it everyday.

                    Swan
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sat, January 7, 2006 - 11:01 AM
      Re: in America it's not a cultural norm for women to sport natural hair.

      I used to live in the middle east and everyone, men included used to shave their armpits.

      In the summer it made sense - it helped to keep the body cooler. Also, the arabs are actually very big on personal hygiene - they tend to wash an awful lot. 1) because they have to wash before they enter the mosque and 2) because water is a gift provided by Allah (and no one looks a gift-horse in the mouth).
      They're also very big on perfume - I used to date a guy who I'm sure used to spray half a bottle of Calvin Klein on before he went anywhere (damn he smelt so good!).

      So I don't think it's an American/Western thing so to speak... Although yes, de-hairing in the western world can sometimes drive a girl Ker-ayyyyzeeeeeeeeeeeee!

      xxx
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sat, January 7, 2006 - 6:26 PM
        this turkish friend of mine said that turks prefer the clean shaven look. and not just their arm pits, if you know what i mean. he also said that many turks are offended by pit hair, and pubic hair. i also heard that there was something in the koran about hair equating to uncleanliness. my wife usually shaves, but there have been times in the past where she has let it grow. i'm ok with it either way, she's a babe regardless.
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sat, January 7, 2006 - 6:45 PM
          I am a wax FREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!



          I get my legs waxed, face, and did my pits once. I used this hard wax, its a lot better than regular wax because it desnt take any skin off, its just the flicking to get it started that HURTS!

          Since my legs have been waxed so much, my hair hardly grows back it all!
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Sat, January 7, 2006 - 7:12 PM
            >I am a waz FREAK!!!

            haha, you're too funny Jae!

            I have to say that personally, I don't like hairy legs or pits...it's just not for me. Luckily, mah best friend's mom is an aestetician(no clue on spellin) so I get stuff done for free! I ALWAYS have her do it cause the only time I tried to wax myself at home I did my bikini line, and my skin was practically black because it bruised so bad...I was walkin around like a cowboy for the rest of the day!
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Fri, March 3, 2006 - 12:04 PM
      Kaia, I couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly how I feel. It's distracting and all the "American" stereotypes pop into my head.

      To each their own, but to me, ~ewe~ ... Sorry.
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sat, January 7, 2006 - 11:24 AM
    >>There is a very popular dancing troupe who's name escapes me, whom all have 'pit-hair'.<<

    I believe Kaia is refering to Unmata.

    Pit hair doesn't bother me a bit. It's certainly more natural than shaving. I don't find it to be a distraction in the dance at all. However, if one were all dressed up in a beaded bedlah I think it would look a little inappropriate, but for Tribal I think it's just fine.

    Shaving is a pain in the patootie, in my opinion. I haven't shaved my legs since 1988 when I took a 24-day wilderness trip and didn't want to bother with it. What freedom! I go back and forth on the pits but need to shave them in the winter because I tend to sweat more and be more stinky in the winter. Go figure! ;0 ]

    It doesn't gross me out one bit. A lot of my my friends don't shave their legs, their pits, or both so I guess I'm just really used to it.
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sat, January 7, 2006 - 11:59 AM
    I didnt shave at all for about six years, and have only recently started shaving again. I started only because I felt like a change (hey, some people dye their hair, i started shaving!). And the reason I originally stopped was for myself, not anybody else. I personally think there is nothing wrong with body hair, on men or women, and dislike that cultural stigma with no actual basis of logic is demanding that in order for me to be feminine, attractive and hygienic I have to shave about 60% of my body.

    I recently looked into the history of shaving, and it's an onandoffagain kind of thing. There were times when nobody shaved, there were times when everybody shaved, ever since the height of the Egyptian empire, probably even before that. And if something is so fickle, and so everchanging, what does it matter if someone is hairy or not? It's all a fad anyway, shaving or not shaving. Honestly I think women look beautiful both ways.

    But in the end I think it depends on what point you are trying to make when you dance, and which you are more dedicated to. So if you think its detracting from your dance and unfortunately I could see that happening, shave your armpits. But if you like your hairy armpits and want to make a point of them while you dance, that you can have hairy armpits and be elegant, then keep them!
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sat, January 7, 2006 - 1:44 PM
      I think a dancer should know their audience. From reading Unmata's threads, they've covered their pits for certain performances. Not every audience is ready to accept pit hair regardless of one's dance skill.
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sat, January 7, 2006 - 1:59 PM
        I have always regarded shaving my pits as a pain and a chore, so several years ago, I got laser treatments. Haven't needed a razor there since! I do think it's a dancer's choice, but it is a distraction, and I believe most audiences expect clean-shaven dancers.
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sat, January 7, 2006 - 4:27 PM
    My first belly dance instructor, who taught "Arabic Fusion", didn't shave. But we were on a college campus, so apart from inwardly spoken comments, no one really cared.
    I myself don't shave. I end up with two many cuts and develop allergic reactions to deoderant, so I haven't shaved anything at all in about 3 years. I used to shave /everything/, even my forearms (which don't need it). Now I don't shave at all. However, I do trim. I got a beard trimmer and just keep it on the lowest three settings for keeping things looking nice under nylons or peaking through armholes in shirts.
    As for dancing with them... when I am in class, I don't care. I just dance. In performances, though, I would wear the cut-up-nylons-sleeves that show off one's shoulders but cover the bottom of one's arms, or else an elbow-length choli. In Tribal dancing, there are so many costuming options that you can cover up unshaven pits w/o anyone even imagining that's the point.

    But as other dancers have said, if I was in a beaded bedlah w/ arm gauntlets then it would be very awkward to perform unshaven. So I never use that costuming.
    *laughs* I've had hour long conversations with my fiancé about what types of circumstances would get me to shave again, and I think that I would happily sacrifice an impressive opportunity of being a performer or something if they REQUIRED me to shave. Mostly because there are so many other options available.
    In comparison to the options of belly dance and body hair, one cannot make a living as a stripper if one is unwilling to shave/wax/laser/etc.
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sat, January 7, 2006 - 6:42 PM
      Me personally I shave b/c I just think it looks better and of course that's solely my opinion. :) I also wax my eyebrows b/c if not they would be the classic unibrow no doubt. If I could bring myself to ender the pain I'd wax my whole bikini area versus shaving it. **TMI I know** :D :D LOL
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sat, January 7, 2006 - 7:52 PM
        Wax that bikini area, girl! It's not NEAR as painful as your imagination tells you it is. It's the anticipation of the waxing that is the worst. Once you start waxing, you'll never stop. Endure the pain, it's only temporary and not so bad.
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sat, January 7, 2006 - 9:52 PM
          I'm with Leize! I had my first bikini wax and I was SO glad I did!! The hair grew back very slowly, I had one day of little red bumps and then nothing! Smooth as a baby's butt for weeks!! I used to shave all the time 'down there' but now I'm a convert. If you can find a good waxer, it's a quick, non too painless experience! I just made my next appointment yesterday :D
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sat, January 7, 2006 - 6:39 PM
    I don't have a problem with pit hair. I shave, but I hate it. I tried waxing my pitts once and bruised the sh*t out of myself, so I won't be doing that again without assistance! But my instructor Mesmera says that she didn't use to shave her pits, but she got tired of people being distracted by it, so she started shaving again. I think that you have to judge your audience. If you are dancing in an upscale restaurant, you may want the extra coverage so those people won't be distracted. But in the end, it is all abouot being happy with yourself. If you arehappy with yourself and your body, then screw everyone else, you know?
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sat, January 7, 2006 - 7:25 PM
      I have to shave mine....I'm Italian. Nuf said!!!
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Tue, January 17, 2006 - 9:56 AM
        I've been told by every hairdresser (and most waxers) I've been to that I have more hair than they've ever worked on before and I still don't shave the pits. I don't think it matters that your Italian. I'm of Scotch-Irish and Checkoslovakian heritage...it's a hairy hairy hair-itage!
        You aint gotta shave em!
        I'm just saying...
        Jill
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Tue, January 17, 2006 - 4:06 PM
          Hi Jill! I don't know you personally, but I took a workshop from you a couple years ago in Lexington and it rocked. I gotta agree with you, that Italians aint the only hairy girls out there. I'm primarily Scottish/Irish in heritage, some Scandinavian, and yep-I'm a hairy girl. I do shave-long black stubbles/hair poking out of pasty white flesh don't appeal to me. But, I wish sometimes that body hair was more accepted in society. I have a bikini line from hell and I hate summer with a passion. I wear pants year round-won't be caught dead (except by close relatives who share my sasquatch nature-LOL) in a bathing suit. If I do shave, I just get an angry red rash that calls as much attention to the area as the stubble itself.
          Anyway, on the body hair on other girls issue, I personally don't care. Yes, it will catch my attention briefly, but then it's a non issue.
          Did I already tell you that you rock! Sometimes during that workshop I could swear that you didn't have an actual bone in your body-LOL. I didn't get to stay for the show-nasty nasty weather as I recall-but I wished I had after hearing how great it was.
          Carole
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Tue, January 17, 2006 - 6:22 PM
            Thanks for tha shout out Carole!
            Nice to see you here.
            I hate bathing suits too, I'd rather be naked!
            Jill
            • Re: pit- hair!!!

              Tue, January 17, 2006 - 9:29 PM
              I realize how far this thread has veered away from the intentions stated on the tribe header, but I can't help posting in again.
              Thanks Rachel, for not slapping us on the wrist too hard. ; )

              Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think tribe is so cool- never did I think I'd be taling to some of the "legends" of tribal bellydance about things like pit hair-LOL!. It's great to be able to ask for advice from people like Jill Parker, Rachel Brice, and Sharon Moore amongst others. Everyone here has something relevant to say and contribute-on serious and silly subjects. Rachel is very down to earth-sweet, funny, etc... I wasn't able to converse with you much at the workshop-but judging from what I've seen and heard here, you are the same way, and Sharon as well.
              (And I hope you don't think I'm kissing ass, btw. Maybe I am, just a little, but I really do mean what I said-I love the way tribe allows us all to share).
              OK-I'll shut up now!
              Carole
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sat, January 7, 2006 - 11:59 PM
    My mother never shaved when I was growing up; I didn't know anybody shaved their armpits and legs until I was at least twelve, and I was fourteen before I finally realized that EVERYBODY seemed to do it... after that the internal peer-pressure sure set in, though; for me the decision to start shaving felt like something I was forced to do rather than something I chose (like makeup or wearing a bra), or something natural, and that memory still pains me. So I LUV to hear from women who don't shave, even though I have become somewhat resigned to my razor over the years (and yes, I do like the feel of nice, silky, freshly-shaven legs, and the look of bare pits.) I don't have enough body hair to ever bother with waxing, I think... do pluck the eyebrows, though.

    Regarding shaving and dance... I definitely think that your armpits (hairy or not) should be judged based on how they fit with the rest of the costume and style of the dance, just like every other element of your appearance. So hairy pits for tribal could work quite well if you're going for an earthy feel, but I think they woulld look out of place with a cabaret bedlah etc., especially given what's been mentioned in this thread about attitudes to shaving in the middle east.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sun, January 8, 2006 - 12:59 AM
      I think it's pretty, actually. I love da pit-hair.
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sun, January 8, 2006 - 1:17 AM
        I think there's a natural beauty about women with armpit hair... the problem is GROWING IT...

        It's like the hair on my head - it gets to a point where it just irritates, so you either put up with it (which can get really uncomfortable) or shave.

        I've finally managed to learn how to cope with growing it on my head but I'm in no hurry to stop shaving my pits at present time.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sun, January 8, 2006 - 3:38 PM
        (I'm not that religious. ;)) Just wondering if biologically we're better off leaving it there. I figure, anywhere we have hair, there must be a reason. Some people love shaving their nether-regions, too, for similar reasons I suppose. We've (culturally) become rather averse to hair in certain bodily areas, haven't we? (*thinking, back hair!*) Sometimes I wonder if we're trying to evolve into a hairless species. *L*

        Personally, I love the hair on my head, rarely shave it off my legs, usually shave the pits once or twice weekly (that's about all it needs), but anything lower--as in, the pelvic area? No way. It doesn't bother the hubby or the doc so I say it STAYS. *L* I'm never gonna be a Playboy bunny, and I don't wear butt floss bikinis, so who cares! Stubbles are a nightmare and depilatories and waxing sound painful and rash-inducing.

        Oh, wait. This was about pit hair, wasn't it? :Þ Eh... doesn't bother me to see it on women and I figure it's their choice... whether or not they're European.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sun, January 8, 2006 - 3:41 PM
          What happened to my "if God wanted women to have pit hair, s/he would've have..." subject line????? Arrggggh. *L*
        • putting on my anthropologist hat

          Fri, March 3, 2006 - 7:51 AM
          Armpit, or axillary hair is considered a secondary sexual characteristic (genitals are primary sexual characteristics). It's a sign of sexual maturity (puberty is indeed derived from the word for hair!), and some speculate that it's there to help collect and disperse pheromones (humans don't rely on pheromones for mating - we can mate all the time, not just in a certain season (insert joke here) - but we do have the ability to react to pheromones, however limited it is.)
          • Re: putting on my anthropologist hat

            Sat, March 4, 2006 - 7:49 PM
            great info Zimra!!
            i dont like to restrict my pheromones . if i choose to use a deoderant i you rock salt which is natural, and nutralises the smell instead of tyring (in vain usually) to hide it.
            yes i stinct, lol! no the stuff really work
            do ya kill your pheromones using it though? hummm....
            • Re: putting on my anthropologist hat

              Sat, March 4, 2006 - 7:51 PM
              jesus just re-read that. mad spelling everywhere. please excuse im on vacation!!
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: putting on my anthropologist hat

                Sun, March 5, 2006 - 7:10 AM
                Then maybe you guys have some advice for us. I tried switching to the natural deoderants. I was using the crystal rock one, as well as another more smelly one. For me, they really didnt work. I would sweat a lot, and smell bad.......but it was as if the smell was a combination of smelly me and smelly deoderant to cover it up. You could notice the two smells seperately.

                Maybe I didn't stick with it long enough. But which natural deoderants work for you ? What is your regimen? And how long did it take before your body readjusted, and stopped sweating a lot more with the natural ones?
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Wed, October 10, 2007 - 2:22 AM
          Sorry but I just had to comment this. I'm not sure what you meant by "whether or not they're European" in this context but I just wanted to make it clear that it is NOT common to have pit hair in Europe. Actually I have NEVER seen a dancer with clearly unshaven pits. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have hair growing but I don't want you guys to have the false idea that ALL Europeans are hairy. That just isn't the case...
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sun, January 8, 2006 - 1:15 AM
    Pit hair distracts me greatly. No matter how awesome the performer is, one little arm in the air with fuzzy pits and that's all I see for the entire dance! I can't help it, it's how I'm wired. I don't see any more of the dance 'cause I'm busy staring at those little pits . . .

    I keep wanting to braid it and add cowry shells . . .
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sun, January 8, 2006 - 1:18 AM
      > I keep wanting to braid it and add cowry shells

      DUDE!

      rofl!
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sun, January 8, 2006 - 6:56 AM
        well lads there is mixed feeling here for sure! i personally do not want to shave it off, stubble is far more gross then soft hairs in my view, but if thats all people are gonna be thinking about when im dancing.....actually im not sure how much i care as long as im feelin good thats all that matters right? hummm maybe i will attach cowrie shells, incorporate the pit . FREE THE PIT campaign starts here!
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sun, January 8, 2006 - 8:50 AM
    You know, I can't help but envy women who can actually stand to let their pit hair grow! Personally I can't because whatever sweat does to my skin, it make it dry and irritated. By having pit-hair, it doesn't let the skin cool on a hot and humid New England day, so I end up miserable, itchy and uncomfortable. Based on that alone, in my case, it's got to go. If I had more information on laser treatments, I may just do that. If it wasn't for that concern, I probably would just let it grow. Unfortunately, living in a humid climate and being fuzzy just doesn't work for me.

    But my problems aside, I have a hard time not getting distracted by pit-hair, but the more common place it's becoming, the easier it is for me to just accept it as being part of the beauty of the natural body. While an upscale high class audience may not accept it, there are plenty of other opportunities that will accept it, so you really won't be losing too much. And if you think it'll be too distracting to a particular audience, there are so many options for costuming. If you chose to embrace that natural beauty, more power to you!
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sun, January 8, 2006 - 10:22 AM
      i agree that it would be totally uncomfortable!!!

      my ex-bellydance teacher didn't shave her legs and to me it took away from her femininity. like attilla, i'm wired that way too. my eyes go right to that spot. may be a silly american culture thing.

      personally, i get itchy on the legs if i let them go too long, which is easy to do in the winter.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sun, January 8, 2006 - 12:28 PM
    I prefer egyptian sugaring to wax or shaving.

    I would wax from my face down, because I can't stand body hair or how it feels! LOL!
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sun, January 8, 2006 - 1:04 PM
      i'm the same way. only thing is that i can't have it - i can't. i have this leetle problem called trichotillomania... means i unconsciously/obsessively pull at my hair. so i have to get rid of it, or i'll spend hours with a pair of tweezers plucking them out one by one by one... i manage to leave the hair on my head alone, and i stopped obsessing over my forearms, but - and i find this kind of funny actually - when i'm really stressed (like when i'm studying), i'll pull my eyebrows. later, you can tell how stressed i was over a particular subject by the number of eyebrow hairs on my books. i leave the hair on my head and forearm hair alone tho... another one of those happy 'gawd, christina is a friggin weird chick' tidbits.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sun, January 8, 2006 - 4:37 PM
        I'm a sugaring convert myself...prefer it to wax and shaving...I've also had my eyebrows threaded at one of the local salons that caters to Indian women. If you can get someone who really knows what they're doing, it doesn't twinge as much a tweezing.
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sun, January 8, 2006 - 7:24 PM
          Total removal of body-hair was customary for both men and women in ancient Egypt. Many men and women also preferred to shave their heads bald, replacing their natural hair with a wig. Priests, who maintained stringent codes of cleanliness, are frequently depicted with perfectly bald heads. At least from what ancient imagery recounts to us, despite her shaved head, the average Egyptian woman did not walk around bald, but invariably wore a wig. Shaving the head may have served a multitude of purposes: eliminating one's own hair may have been more comfortable in Egypt's hot climate, cleanliness may have been easier to maintain and head lice certainly easier to avoid. Wigs may have fit better once the natural hair was gone, however the bald look itself does not seem ever to have been a generally popular style for Egyptian women. Although, of course, what was or wasn't worn in the comfort and privacy of one's own home may remain an eternal mystery. Wigs also apparently held sensual connotations, based on the frequent references in Egyptian romantic poetry.

          www.touregypt.net/magazine/...0/mag4.htm
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sun, January 8, 2006 - 8:59 PM
    I can't help it; when I see a dancer (or any woman, for that matter) with hairy armpits, it's all I look at.

    I hate shaving, too--I only shave my legs about about a dozen times a year. Women with hairy legs are beautiful. But it's just something about hairy underarms that bugs me. I'd think maybe if it was trimmed as short as one could get it with a scissors, that'd make it a little easier on the eyes.

    But removing armpit hair does have a practical reason--having all that hair there means that there is TONS more surface area on which bacteria can grow. More bacteria = more odor, because it's not our sweat that makes our pits smell bad, it's the sweat-eating bacteria under our pits that smells bad!
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sun, January 8, 2006 - 9:15 PM
      Yes, when I see pit-hair, I can't help but think, is the odor coming next?

      I've shaven my legs and pits every day since I first started getting bodyhair. I like a smooth, cleanshaven feel and look. I recently tried a Venus Vibrance razor that has a vibration to it when you shave. It's nice but I don't think its made a huge shaving difference overall. It makes me wonder why that feature was added... but since I don't want Rachel's tribe to become censored, let's just let that debate die right here and now. ;o)
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sun, January 8, 2006 - 9:31 PM
        *blush*

        milena... i never woulda gone there... but you went there... and so i went there... shame on you! now i'll never be able to pass those in the store without blushing and cracking up!
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Wed, January 11, 2006 - 2:02 PM
        "It's nice but I don't think its made a huge shaving difference overall. It makes me wonder why that feature was added..."

        You know, my friends and I were having a conversation about that just a week or two ago and came to the same conclusion! I'm glad I'm not the only one whose mind went down that road!
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sun, January 8, 2006 - 10:51 PM
      okay, i can't keep my mouth shut any longer.

      as some of y'all have mentioned it's our own conditioning that makes unshaven underarms into an issue. i'm sure each of you could find it in yourself NOT think it's a big deal.....'cause it's not.

      so, why not just deal with it and enjoy the dancer? they're underarms people. all of us grow hair there!

      i didn't shave for 9 years. i loved my tiny lil' hairs. i loved the fact that i people were shocked--- that i could maybe still be a bit attractive AND hairy!

      but in september i did it. i shaved. i'm honestly kinda feeling like a sell-out-- but sometimes you've got to sacrifice a lil' sumthin' sunthin' to move forward.

      and, for the record, i didn't smell any different, hairy or not.
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sun, January 22, 2006 - 9:59 PM
        have to put in my two cents- it seems everyone else has- and can you believe that something so unbelievably basic- as Katie said 'all of us grow hair there!'- can get to be one of the biggest discussion topics?

        I actually find pitt hair pretty sensual. But then, i love hair- lots of it or not, who cares- I'll appreciate hair or lack thereof equally.

        The director of a group i used to dance with insisted that we shave our pitts if we were dancing sans-choli (i mean, with just bras or whatever. NO! not JUST bras!) I think we resisted her telling us what we could and couldn't do with our bodies- basically, she was imposing her own notions of beauty and what was socially acceptable or not onto us.

        I have hair, sometimes not. I actually prefer to have at least a little. Pheromones, people. Though you might not smell 'em, they're what attract us to each other.

        Once i saw a pretty girl in a nice summery dress walking along the beach. When she recognised her friend she put her arm up and waved- blond pitt hair... it was vulnerable and sensual- a part of yourself you might not usually show...

        I would love to say to the ladies who are passionately anti-pitt 'Try it, you might like it'....

        But each to their own, yeah?
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Mon, January 9, 2006 - 2:31 AM
      I've come across some theories in anthropology about the body hair thing. It's often speculated that in temperate climates body hair on women is less tolerated the more clothes you wear. I think body hair in general functions best without clothes; body hair serves the purpose if you don't wear clothes of trapping your pheramones but you shouldn't have the bacteria smell caused by sweat (it's when the bacteria get wet that they smell) because you're uncovered. But humans have moved into regions far colder than those it evolved in and have adapted thair material culture to deal with this, without modifying their bodies so much.

      Because we wear clothes in the West and especially in cold countries and a lot of synthetic fibres in the modern world we do sweat more and it gets trapped next to our skin by our clothes and indeed hairy armpits do harbour more bacteria and therefore more smell than clean shaven ones. Smell is very important to all animals as are things like pheramones that we don't smell but we do register whether we realise it or not. If you wear less clothes however then odour shouldn't be an issue and so body hair becomes less of a taboo.

      Certainly many historical cultures (especially in hot climates) have equated hairness with uncleanliness. There's probabluy lots of psycholoigcal things going on here too and probably social prejudices that are very old and we now don't understand yet we continue to hold them.

      I personally do see past ody hair but I don't want it myself. I don't see anything wrong with people doing what makes them comfortable. If you don't want to be hairy you don't have to be, and if you do then you can.
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sun, January 8, 2006 - 10:22 PM
    I have pit hair and don't shave it anymore....after a number of years suffering from ingrown hairs and irritated skin I just stopped....I am probably blessed in that I am not incredibly hairy & I also never dance with my underarms exposed anyhow. So the issue of distraction by hairy pits wont be a problem for me.....
    When watching other dancers, provided their isn't masses of hair I do not find it offensive in the least....

    I should think that it would be the smell more than anything else that would turn me off, a gorgeously gifted dancer who has not a pit hair in sight who wafted by with her veil & smells like she has just gone ten rounds with Mike Tyson WOULD definitely offend me!!! LOL :o)

    I use The Body Crystal deodorant and find that this stops the stinkiness that may exist otherwise because even though I sweat...which is of course totally natural...the bacteria that causes the smell stays away. And is lasts for years so means you are not spending $$$ on buying deodorants every few weeks.

    In case people are not aware, most anti-perspirants/deodorants have aluminium or other nasties in them and this stops you smelling by swelling your pores closed so you can't sweat....YUKKO! See here for more info if interested www.bodycrystal.com.au/
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Mon, January 9, 2006 - 3:00 AM
      Ha HA Ha ....I just got back from performing for a local show....Duh duh...with Pit hair, and the funniest part is, is that I had no friggin idea, until after I got off stage.....
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Mon, January 9, 2006 - 4:44 AM
        This funny thread reminds me a flamenco show we took part with my group... we were in a hurry, we were wearing sleeveless dresses, and one of my buddies, in the haste, just shaved one pit... but forget her 2d one! : )

        ah, another of those unforgettable moments of severe stage loneliness... ; p

      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Tue, January 17, 2006 - 6:24 PM
        Hey Zoe! I didn't notice your pits...but I tend not to.
        I heard a story that someone used to call you nappy roots, tell us about that, what's that about?
        xo,
        Jillsie
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Mon, January 9, 2006 - 10:18 AM
      Armpit smell? Another chemical free tip... Wheatgrass shots and lots of dark greens in your meals kill body oder from the inside. If you are a garlic lover double shots...
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: pit- hair!!!

        Mon, January 9, 2006 - 10:43 AM
        I shave.....I don't shave...........I shave......I don't shave.
        I've performed with and without. West Coast- no shave. East Coast shave. Feel the crowd, do what makes you comfy.

        Re: armpit smell?
        Taking fenugreek internally will eventually make your b. o. smell like maple syrup.....delish......
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sun, January 15, 2006 - 3:05 PM
          If you have ANY issues regarding Blood Glucose Levels at all, then be carefull of Fenugreek. It can lower Blood Sugar, it is also not recommended for those who are preggers.

          E
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Mon, January 9, 2006 - 10:12 AM
    I don't like the way it looks at all, I think it is hard not to focus on it with the rest of the costume and hair is so well attended too and sparkling. It also makes me wonder "if I were a guy" how many tools of navigation you would need to get through the nest down South, because if the armpits are not trimmed...umm dare I say?

    It just crosses the clean line for me a little, especially when it comes to the way it lookes on a bellydancer combined with a beautiful costume. It is not just because it is on a girl I feel the same about it on guys too especially when you have the deoderant globuals all mashed in it. I understand it has Gender preference attached to it as well, girls go for that stuff and I guess It can look kinda hot on a boyish girl in the right setting.

    I know it is natural, but so is farting, and both Farting and armpit hair don't work gracefully with glitter and lipstick. Of course that is M.O. and I mean no harm by it.
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Tue, January 17, 2006 - 3:22 PM
      > I know it is natural, but so is farting, and both Farting and armpit hair don't work gracefully with glitter and lipstick.

      HA HA HA HA...I love it! I agree with you...but it doesn't bother me. Just my preference. I say those who like to have pit-hair go right ahead. Those who don't like pit-hair...shave away. We just both need to accept that some people might have differing opinions. It's okay. You're not wrong to want clean shaven and your not wrong to want au natural. People shouldn't be pressured to shave and others shouldn't be pressured to let it grow!
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: pit- hair!!!

    Wed, January 11, 2006 - 6:01 AM
    i shave, but i've got really pale skin and REALLY dark hair and i just feel manish if i don't. also, genetics have *blessed* me with an abundance of hair and it distracts me, nevermind anyone else. it used to bother me when i saw hairy dancers, but then a girl joined the troupe who didn't shave and i got used to it. now its no big deal. but yeah, it is distracting sometimes. but that's the observer's hangup, not the performer's.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: pit- hair!!!

      Wed, January 11, 2006 - 2:38 PM
      i didn't shave for years and years, and i think it's sorta pretty, natural- womanly pretty. the reason i started shaving (once in a while), is that it makes me sweat too much. it's really nice to not have people react like i'm making some big statement everytime i raise my arm, but the sweat thing was always a big annoyance to me. even with deoderant, i smelled myself, and my clothes had the pit stains.... i would never tell someone else to do it or not to, but i'm happier with shaving a couple times a week.
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Mon, January 16, 2006 - 3:56 PM
        Its pretty rare when I shave at all... i am lucky, blonde on legs and red in pits ( goddamn, can we call them underarms??? geesh...pits... you kids) and I get the cutest little single streak of hair there, so it looks all coiffed and contained. So i dig it when it sprouts.

        I hack my legs too often, and I get all rashy ouchy sore pissed when i do my pits....ahem, underarms.

        so when i feel ultra svelte, i make it so...when I feel au naturel, i let it go.
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Mon, January 16, 2006 - 4:02 PM
          haha, Joy, your comments about 'pits' reminds me of Rachel's workshop...dunno how we got on the topic of pits but Rachel was like, "why can't we call them 'arm folds', or something that sounds prettier?" Good times...:)
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Tue, October 9, 2007 - 12:08 PM
            In the forth grade I had to, for some reason, attend "modeling classes." The pageant coach who taught the class said, pointing to her neck, "Ladies, this is a Throat. Chickens have Necks, young ladies have Throats!" I would so love to find her and ask her what she calls armpits.

            I vote for "Shoulder Pocket" or maybe "Shoulder Fold."
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Mon, January 16, 2006 - 4:03 PM
    groWing it feels Good on my bodY.

    i shave it once in a blue moon...when i enjoY That process.

    i'm a process-oriented person.
    i love to feel good and happy.
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Tue, January 17, 2006 - 3:52 PM
      this thread cracked me up so much, i joined the tribe to join the conversation!
      i didn't shave my legs (and was very free and natural in the panty-hair department) for probably 12 years. i think hair's natural. if i offend somebody else for the hair Nature blessed me with, then perhaps they need to examine the way they feel about themselves and the world. i thought pit-hair was way-sexy and girl-power-rawkin'-it. bring it on, you go, girlfriend!, and bring it my way! i tried growing my pit hair out several times and it didn't feel right for me. then i got in a new relationship with a man who made me feel like the sexiest woman in the galaxy. he was into trimming his bodyhair to make himself feel more sexy. a surprise even to myself, i trimmed up my panty-area, and shaved my legs for the first time on valentine's day as a sexy gift. IT MADE ME FEEL SOOOO SEXY!! the way it feels to slip my newly-shaved and lotioned legs into a pair of pants, or fishnets--roWr! my man loves to run his hand down my smooth leg (and maybe even bite it!) and i love that. i am still gung-ho for whatever hair you wanna have wherever you want it. girls with pit-hair--frickin sexy. not for me. who can say but you? i say: nobody.
      and a woman's sexiness ain't in her armpits it's in the way she shake her thang!!
      one more: in the joy of sex, they recommend all body hair: it collects your nectar-sweet-musks for your lover to enjoy and respond to. .!
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Tue, January 17, 2006 - 6:27 PM
        Thats' right! Tiffany should know...she's one sexy little lady!
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Tue, January 17, 2006 - 8:51 PM
          hee hee. ;)
          backatcha.
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Fri, January 20, 2006 - 1:25 PM
            i think one of the main things this conversation goes back to is how we view ourselves as women. what makes a woman "feminine" and "sexy" or "pretty"? who defines how we view ourselves, especially as dancers, women who put themselves out there to be watched. this doesn't have to do just with pit-hair, or the costuming you do or don't wear, the way you wear your hair, as much as self-concept. if you respect yourself, and exude the goddess energy you own, then you will attract respect and appreciation.
            • Re: pit- hair!!!

              Thu, March 2, 2006 - 11:49 PM
              I love my hair. That it grows means I am healthy and strong and nourished. My peach pits make me happy. What does NOT make me happy is others forcing their aesthetic on me (you know, opinion is personal and individual) and implying that I should feel less-than for knowing my own truths and finding my own beauty. I could call what I see as elephant skin- that ashen, crusty, crevicey look of shaven armpit- ugly, but I don't. I just don't like looking at it as much, but I also won't imply character judgements (i.e. insecure, lemming). I consider my own biases and move beyond them. Besides, diversity is beautiful and is what makes things interesting and fun.
              • Re: pit- hair!!!

                Fri, March 3, 2006 - 2:58 AM
                i was born and raised in são paulo, brasil, where the heat is intense for most of the year and no amount of deodorant will keep you from smelling if you don't shave/wax your pits - honestly. so since my teens i have been waxing my legs, bikini line and armpits and i personally do not like body hair in women. but reiterating what has been said in here is that each one of us is different and therefore beautiful in our own right. feeling comfortable in you skin is what makes you pretty and sexy.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: pit- hair!!!

                  Fri, March 3, 2006 - 6:56 AM
                  Another Tatiana here :)

                  I just wanted to say that Jill Parker & Ultra Gypsy, as well as Amy Sigil & UNMATA are all damn sexy, with or without armpit hair!!

                  When I saw Jill dancing, and first noticed her armpit hair I thought, " How awesome! She is not giving in to social norms, and still is as sexy as ever dancing". If women don't feel like shaving their armpits, then so be it. Men don't often shave here in America, so why should women have to?

                  But I do have to admit, that style wise, I dont know if pit-hair would fit cabaret style......glitters and all. I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I feel like it would not go as well with the style of cabaret dancing and costuming.

                  I feel like Tribal Style and American Tribal Style was first developed to promote a sort of positive, sisterhood type of environment and definately did not come out of following cultural norms. They appeared strong, proud, confident, and in-control yet absolutely beautiful AND sexy. Still today, with crazy tattoos, piercings and armpit hair, I feel the message to the rest of the world from Tribal dancers is, " I am who I am, whether you like it or not, and I can still dance, I am beautiful and I am sexy". More power to them!
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Fri, March 3, 2006 - 7:50 AM
          I have found that my body actually likes as little maintanence from the outside as possible--shaving, lotions, excessive washing and exposure to chemicals not only make the little red bumps appear, but also make me stink more, etc. And the friggin' irritation of shaved armpits--ouch! I'm glad fro ya'll that can use whatever deodorant, soap, etc, you like, but man. Most of everything I've encountered has such an abrasive chemical component that I can't use it for an etended period of time, and not at all on freshly shaven anything. My little hairs do a good job of protecting me from what's bad in the world.

          However, I am lucky--blond hairs on the legs, and little light hairs under the arms. I'm pretty close to naturally hairless. I can imagine having a much bigger conflict if I had loads of hair that was more noticeable. It's one of those things that I would want everyone to be comfortable with in themselves, but especially in performing, where everyone is looking at you and people do think whatever they think, it's easier to psych yourself out and shave it all off.

          But rock it! 'Cause, damn. Stubble sucks!!
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Fri, March 3, 2006 - 8:24 AM
            Actually a couple of tiems I've forgotten to use deodorant recently. Now admittedly it's cold at the moment but I actually find that anti perspirant doesn't make me sweat any less than I would normally and I think when I use it I smell worse when I do sweat. I wash twice a day and i am starting to wonder if deodoranti s pointless.

            That said I do shave.
            • Re: pit- hair!!!

              Fri, March 3, 2006 - 12:19 PM
              Interestingly enough, I have some friends who used to be hippies, and they've told me that if you're not the type to sweat excessively using deodorant is actually pointless. If you stop, then after about 2 weeks or so the body's pH will rebalance itself, and you'll be okay.
              • Re: pit- hair!!!

                Fri, March 3, 2006 - 1:32 PM
                I can add proof to that.

                I used to sweat excessively.. like i mean, BAD. All i'd be doing is sitting still... could even be COLD!... and i'd sweat. To the point that drips would run down my arms (yes i know it's gross, bare with me!)

                I used every conventional deodorant and anit-perspirant known to man. My doctor said I needed SURGERY to remove some of my sweat glands and it should fix the problem!

                I stopped using conventional deodorants, started using the stone or all natural good smelly stuff (that are designed to smell nice, not stop sweat) and guess what? No more drips. No more excessive sweat.

                My theory is the numerous toxic chemicals in the conventional deordorants were clogging up my sweat glands and basically freaking them out... so they would constantly sweat to try to repell the toxins, rather than letting them soak in. Kind of like... my bodies defense mechanism. Make sense?

                I've used conventional deodorants and anti-perspirants from time to time, when I run out of my natural stuff or can't find my stone! And even then, it makes me sweat.

                Nothing beats natural-ness.
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Fri, March 3, 2006 - 10:11 AM
    What I love about this tribe is how we can all be so expressive on the topic.

    Personally, I get hideous ingrown hairs under my arms, which are PAINFUL and gross to look at and need to be plucked out with tweezers. This is whether I shave, pluck, or go au natural, and believe me, I've used a special "no bump" gel and I exfoliate and the whole bit. So I'm going with laser hair removal as soon as I can afford it! It's as much for comfort as it is for looks.

    Personally, I think the look clashes bigtime with sparkly bedleh, but can work with tribal groups/soloists in certain venues in certain areas. Every group makes its own aesthetic choices, and personally, after I get over the staring part (which takes a while, whether I'm watching a group of dancers or a hippy chick in a tank top down at the coffee shop) I really admire girls who don't. I've always wondered why eyebrows, eyelashes, and head hair is "beautiful" arm hair is "tolerable" and pit hair is "gross".
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Fri, March 3, 2006 - 10:12 AM
    Bellyhair!

    I nearly forgot. I recently read that in India (at least in the past) a dark line of hair...we'd call it a "happy trail" or a "snail trail" creeping up the belly, even all the way to the chest, was considered ravishingly beautiful in a woman.
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Fri, March 3, 2006 - 1:36 PM
      "treasure trail"

      hehe.

      Wow, I've never seen a treasure trail on a woman before.. only men. I'm very curious to know what it looks like now!

      I've get a teeny bit of dark hair on my lower abdomen in a trail (like 6 hairs lol).

      I'm naturally blonde/dirty blonde so all the hair on my body (arms, legs, etc) is very fine and pretty much not noticable.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: pit- hair!!!

      Fri, March 3, 2006 - 2:47 PM
      it's also called a linea negra, sometimes made of hair, sometimes just darker melanocytes (skin cells), and often gets darker with pregnancy. I performed with a woman who had a linea negra still--she'd given birth just a week or two before, and a gay man commented on how damned sexy it was because it was so masculine. She was very confused since, deriving FROM PREGNANCY, it's about the most feminine thing possible! LOL!
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Fri, March 3, 2006 - 4:42 PM
        yup, get the linea negra (sounds far sexier than belly hair!) and it looks foxy I think as it accentuates my round belly. Like shading on a sketch of a nude. I do shave though when I perform and for *other* occasions as I don't feel comfortable in my culture with a hairy body. Like some who've written here, I wish I did feel comfy but I guess that's the thing about being around in the 21st Century. Empowered and advertised at = agh! brainmelt

        Crystal rock deoderants are great, I use them all over before a show to minimise pong. Commercial anti-sweat products contain aluminum which is *so* toxic. Of course still I use them from time to time ;0)
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sat, March 4, 2006 - 1:24 AM
          yeah its the aluminum.. damn stuff.. causes cancer and all sorts of other things! Gotta love our so called "Evolved" world these days eh?

          Linea Negra, wow.. sounds neat!
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Sat, March 4, 2006 - 5:58 AM
            I can back that. I used to sweat buckets, and seemed to sweat more when I was clammy or cold, though it was hard to tell how much cold was due to being constantly damp. I found that switching to natural deodorants made me sweat less after a little adjustment period, and now I am far less likely to stink and less likely to feel like a sweaty freak--obviously, in the time I was using antiperspirants it was because I was really wanting not to sweat, so sweating way more made me really self conscious in my early teenage years.

            I should also note that I am constantly on the move--I have walked or biked pretty much everywhere for the past couple of years, did pretty sweat-inducing work in a stock room lifting boxes, and I dance pretty constantly. Even with all of this, the deodorants from Lush work wonders, and they all smell lovely. I really recommend them. I've also found that Burt's Bees baby soap does a better job at gently deodorizing and cleaning than most conventional soaps. My experience has taught me that my body much prefers less of everything, and what I use gives best results if it's relatively free of harsh chemicals, alcohol and the like. All of that stuff seems to trigger the sweat reaction, big time, I think in a bid to rid my body of stuff it feels is uncool, almost like a fever sweat or something.

            Seriously, with all the crap we expose ourself to through city life, pesticides, generous helpings of preservatives and other chemical fix-it-alls, I find it amazing that people aren't actually sicker.
            • Re: pit- hair!!!

              Sat, March 4, 2006 - 10:42 AM
              I agree! (About the sicker part)

              And burts bees baby soap? really? I gotta pick some of that up today! You know, i've always been curious about it. Just because it says "baby" on it doesn't mean adults can't use it!

              I use olay body washes mostly... and actually.. I've developed a rash on my side from the soap! Last shower I had, I used an all natural bar of soap we had kicking around.. smells like mango! (mmmmm) And guess what? Rash is going away!

              It's funny how our body reacts to bad things. For deodorants - sweating. And for soaps - rashes. Like it's giving you little warnings, "STOP USING THIS CRAP OR I'M GONNA DIE". You know?

              Ah, the human body... what a miraculous thing! =-)
            • Re: pit- hair!!!

              Sat, March 4, 2006 - 11:40 AM
              So, Lush is just a doederant rather than an anti-perspirant?
              • Re: pit- hair!!!

                Sun, March 5, 2006 - 7:20 AM
                Hey, I'm tellin ya, soap (not deodorant and beauty bar...just chemicals-yuk) is the BEST thing. I haven't bought store sold soap in years, like probably 10 years, I make my own, and use natural deodorants, and I have also noticed a marked reduction in the overall sweaty pit factor. I rarely really stink, and if I do, i'm usually wearing synthetic fabric.

                Lynda
              • Re: pit- hair!!!

                Sun, March 5, 2006 - 10:06 AM
                Dude, Lush is da bomb. Seriously good stuff. Here's where to start online:

                www.lush.com/

                I recommend the Shower Smoothies (the coconut and almond one is wonderful!) and the Oxeo deodorant bar or Aromacreme, which smoothes on and is a bit like paste to the touch. They both smell fabulous and work really well. And yeah, not antiperspirants, but deodorants. I think the active ingredient in both of these is a key essential oil and baking soda.

                So nice!
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Wed, October 3, 2007 - 9:42 AM
    I find armpit hair on a woman is attractive and natural. I prefer a woman to be herself instead of being obsessed with what society says. I have been with women who were obsessed with shaving that ended up being miserable and then I ended up being miserable myself. For me it was not worth it.
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sat, October 6, 2007 - 7:30 AM
      I shave. And shave. And shave. And I detest when I don't, BUT only for me--you see, I"m really pale, and my hair was black when I was little, but after chemo and the like, my head hair grew in dark reddy brown, but I've got BLACK pit hair. I tried it once, but to me, I kept thinking it was a shadow or something stuck to me b/c it didn't match up with the rest of me....so...off it came.

      So for other women, I don't care, shaved or not, although the girl I saw with blue hair was a bit distracting, and if mine matched the rest of me I probably wouldn't be saving up the pennies for Elase, but after 13 years, my hair is NOT going back to black and my pit hair is still the color of tar, so....off it goes.
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sat, October 6, 2007 - 12:06 PM
        I guess I'm lucky, at this stage of life there isnt anything growing in the pits anymore. I havent shaved in 10 years? There simply isnt a reason to.. I shave my legs, sometimes Ill plug in the wax machine and do it that way. Pluck or wax my brows, wax upper lip now and then, and depilitate the sideburns about once a year or when I happen to notice. I waxed the sideburns ONCE. that was a painfull lesson to learn! Bikini line is plucked when it is a bit uneven, but I really cant be bothered to wax there- I just dont care....................
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sat, October 6, 2007 - 12:50 PM
    Pluck and wax the brows but razor the legs. ;p For some reason when I don't shave I feel dirty....it's this thing with me. I'm weird.

    Anyway, just wanted to put my own thoughts in. I used to be distracted by the dancers with pit hair but now I'm like...meh I don't care either way. I think the dancer herself should be awarded points if she is good no matter if she has pit hair or not.
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sat, October 6, 2007 - 6:15 PM
      I'm with april! Yup, I don't care if a dancer shaves or not, it's all about the dance. Although, if it was died blue or pink or something like that, I would stare! I also like all the hilarity this topic brought up! (hilarity, is that a word? oh well, it is now!)
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sun, October 7, 2007 - 6:12 AM
        Hathor, I'd love to see that. lawls.
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Sun, October 7, 2007 - 6:52 AM
          [armpit hair]
          (mammally factual)
          ©2001 Alix Olson.


          There were no seats on the subway
          so I had to grab a strap
          As I lifted up my arm I heard a scream "what’s that?"
          I took a look around,
          I thought "there must be something scary".
          Like a lion or a tiger or the Virgin Mary?
          But then, I noticed they were looking at me.
          I heard "oh my gawd! They’re hairy!"

          You turn thirteen, they put a razor in your hand
          To teach you the difference between a woman and a man.
          You see, chicks smooth their pits
          so boys can smooth the chicks.
          But I was different, I wanted to smooth the chicks,
          I wanted to lick their pits!

          Armpit Hair! Armpit Hair! (I like it)
          Armpit Hair! Armpit Hair! (spike it, spike it!)

          I was walking around brooklyn
          when these cool guys drove by
          They said "we’re looking for a good time baby,
          wanna ride?"
          I flashed my biggest smile,
          I said "hey, sounds like fun"
          Then I flash my armpit hair. They turn. They run.

          Armpit Hair! Armpit Hair! (it’s a weapon)
          Armpit Hair! Armpit Hair! (use discretion)

          Well, I hear that the Senate is planning a convention
          to pass an amendment
          On body hair prevention. I’m planning on attending,
          I’ll be sitting in the front row.
          I’ll have chains on my pits screaming
          "Hell no, it won’t go!"
          I’m like Inspector Gadget, when I unfurl my curls
          I lasso all the bad guys, then I rope in all the girls.
          Well, I figure I owe ‘em cause they saved me
          From the clueless and the hairless Patriarchy!

          Armpit Hair, Armpit Hair! (you know it)
          Armpit Hair! Armpit Hair! (grow it, grow it!)

          Well, I want to go to Europe, the land of Brave and Free
          Where it’s considered natural for girls to be hairy.
          Where gillette don’t make a profit off of
          keeping womyn busy
          As pleasers with their shavers
          and their razors and their tweezers.

          So to all the boys and the men
          with the furry, furry masses
          With the ape like backs
          and the very hairy asses.
          I don’t find that particularly pretty
          So get your opinion out of my hairy pitty.
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Sun, October 7, 2007 - 8:17 AM
            *giggle*....that's too funny!!!

            Personally, I just feel more comfortable when I shave...otherwise, it just plain itches!!! I would love to be able to afford a pro to do the waxing for me, but kids tend to be expensive...so I just love my Venus razours...!!!

            I've never really had to use a deodorant or antiperspirant...never been one to sweat that much, except for my face in the summertime...and it will appear to be melting...go figure...? I also just don't have the body odour issue, so I guess I've been lucky...

            Oh...and as the belly hair thing goes, I've always heard it called a happy trail...and atho I've only seen a few women that have one, I do love one on my man...yummmmmy!!! Course, I love a nice, flat belly to display that trail, too...but I digress...not the subject we're on...what was the subject, again...? I think I'll stop now...
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Tue, October 9, 2007 - 12:04 PM
            Lovely poem!

            I tend to think of my armpit hair as a sign that I have gone through puberty. I'm not a child and I'm not going to go to any effort to look like a child. I have hips, which I like, a big booty, which I also like, and pit hair. I didn't have any of these things before age 14, so they are badges of womanhood to me and woe be to the man who asks me to either lose weight or shave my pits!

            "That's right -- I'm a grown-up woman; deal with it!"

            Of course, sometimes I do shave my pits anyway, but it's my own decision. It's very humid where I live -- some days I don't know if I'm sweating or just gathering condensation. Therefore, when the weather turns hot and muggy, I shave my 'shoulder pockets.' In cooler weather I let it all grow.

      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Mon, October 8, 2007 - 4:22 PM
        When I saw Unmata performing on the Underworld DVD I must admit my first reaction was "ohh how could they not shave". But, that lasted about 30 seconds. Their kickass dancing made me forget allllllll about it. Hair? ok yeah whatever. Look at the skills!!!!!!!

        That said

        Having body hair is a matter of choice. Whatever rocks your boat. Yeah it can be distracting for some people, I don't really care, it's your body and you don't need my approval to do whatever you want with it, I'm not the fashion police. In my troupe there are a couple of girls with pit hair. Then again, I live in Olympia and anything goes! I personally hate hair on my body. I hate it hate it hate it!!!!!!!!!! Especially the parts that don't have ventilation. And on top of it my hair is coarse and thick. I usually just shave the armpits and the belly fur, and use a hair trimmer for the rest, to avoid ingrown hairs. I sweat heavily, and my hair only traps all that sweat and the bacteria decomposes faster and it can smell bad. That is why I hate hair, cause BO can be bad on my body. And if there's something I hate even more than body hair is body stink. Now I do have a problem with body stink. Too hard for me to keep the hair stink-free, that's why it has to go.
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Sun, October 7, 2007 - 9:59 AM
    This discussion reminded me of an article by Rhea....

    www.gildedserpent.com/article...n902.htm


    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sun, October 7, 2007 - 5:32 PM
      I think belly fur is way more distracting than pit hair.

      I haven't shaved in 10 years, so obviously, I support the natural look. I think it does depend, as mentioned in another tribe, what type of costume you are wearing. If you are wearing an sparkly, shiny eygptian costume, than the pit hair really does stand out. If you have more of an earthy costume then it does flow better.
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Fri, October 12, 2007 - 4:51 PM
        Whilst agreeing with Kaytee's observation on costumes, I'd say that my reaction on seeing a bellydancer with armpit hair would be admiration that she's self-confident enough to face some disapproval, and not willing to conform to current expectations.

        I've always wondered why those who feel 'clean' as a result of shaving body hair, rarely feel the need to 'clean' the top of their heads!
        • Re: pit- hair!!!

          Fri, October 12, 2007 - 9:01 PM
          ^^ maybe because the head sees sun often and breathes better than the others, and maybe because the sweat on the head doesn't decompose as fast and as stinky as the parts that don't see the light of day frequently? (unless there's some kind of allergy or illness)

          ultimately is a matter of personal choice, just like using deodorant or not, or taking a shower or not. I choose to shave my pits and trim my bottom and have long hair and take a shower and use deodorant and all the cleansing products I have in my bathroom. Just sayin'.
          • Re: pit- hair!!!

            Sat, October 13, 2007 - 6:25 PM
            I shower regularly so the hair is not a problem---I actually think shaved underarms look strange, like the person hasn't entered puberty yet. Though I respect wanting to do it--it is easier, people won't judge you as much--sadly the only "need" is for cultural reasons.
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Fri, October 19, 2007 - 10:27 PM
    I think that while the decision to shave or not shave is completly personal, there are cultural norms in place that are impossible to avoid and going against them will imply certain things that you have to be prepared to be judged on. For example, my roomate is a classically trained modern and ballet dancer. She came with me to a performance once by some really talented belly dancers. When she saw that two of them didn't shave their armpits, she was pretty appalled. She said that if they weren't willing to present themselves the way the rest of the professional dance community did, she refused to take them seriously as professional dancers. Which........is a point. I'm not saying that it's right, but it's an attitude that you can expect to encounter pretty frequently, both by the general public and by other dancers. And if one is trying to elevate the dance form to be considered in the same way that 'high' arts like ballet and modern are, that critique warrants consideration. You can't always have it both ways, and I think it's important to think about what really matters to you and whatever your decision is, just be fully aware of what you're giving up and why. I feel like either one is a completely valid decision, personally, but with both you are giving up something.
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Sun, October 21, 2007 - 4:11 PM
      Great post Adrienne! This is the core of it: either you abide by the norms or you don't, but if you decide not to you have to accept the consequences gracefully.

      I personally think female shaving is silly but as a performer / entertainer / artist I do what is an expected part of the job. A dancer may think make-up is silly but how many of us would go onstage with a blank-canvas face?
      • Re: pit- hair!!!

        Sun, October 21, 2007 - 8:04 PM
        I understand this statement, it's true, but I am trying to *change* the norms. I don't really want to make a statement, I would prefer that it be normalized, which can only happen if people see it and get used to it. So whenever I see a fellow dancer in class unshaven, I think "All right! One more! I'm not alone! Just a few more and we can be a majority!"

        You might not always be in a position to push to change the norm (having to pay the bills and all), but I think it's good to do when you can. It's the only way the norms will change.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: pit- hair!!!

    Tue, October 23, 2007 - 5:31 AM
    I do find under arm hair distracting at first when watching a dancer but get over it quickly as the dance goes on......if it isn't too long that is. I shaved my under arms until I had laser hair removal. I found that with underarm hair I did put out more odor and honestly most women I've exercised or danced with that have gone natural with underarm hair have the natural olfactory presence as well. One comment was made:

    "You sweat less and it becomes less noticable to you."

    Yes, less noticable to you because you are used to your own scent, but those around you are experiencing a new, not entirely pleasurable, sensation.
    I don't see under arm shaving as a threat to my femanine strength, or caving to the will of society, a truly strong woman has strength with out aesthetics.

    These opinions stated the most important thing is that these are opinions not judgements, I'm not going to get up in the middle of a persons performance and leave because of under arm hair. It is up to each woman to decide what to do with her body and as long as she is comfortable with it that is what counts.
    • Re: pit- hair!!!

      Wed, October 24, 2007 - 12:12 PM
      I get the cat to lick my pits twice a week - that does the trick!
      UNMATA - soo cool with or without hair - luv em
      x
  • Re: pit- hair!!!

    Wed, October 24, 2007 - 2:33 PM
    Do what is comfortable to you and to hell with anyone elses opinion. I have seen many girls that dont shave dance and i am always captivated by the dance not the hair. Dont change you because other people dont have an open mind.

    hugs =)

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