I don't understand how to *do* all these different shimmies - the one that confuses me the most is a 3/4 shimmy and I was wondering if anyone could tell me firtly what they are, and secondly, how to do them (in a concise, informative kind of way..)??? All I've seen to help so far was a "how to" video on youtube, and to be honest I didn't get what they were on about or even that it was the right thing.....help!!!
KittyCat
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KittyCat
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 8:25 AMIf you think of a shimmy as hitting "every" count out of eight with a hip lift (and some people do this differently, so this is only my own explanation!)- RLRLRLRL is 12345678 - then a 3/4 shimmy is exactly what it sounds like: it hits 3 out of 4. 123 hold 567 hold. So your hips are going RLR hold LRL. Some people have extra things they do here, like movements up and out or down and out, but I find that getting the rhythm helps before you start doing that stuff.
To learn, the easiest thing for me was to NOT use music. Music forces you to a certain speed, and I found that sneaking up on the 3/4 shimmy made it easier to catch! I just stood and walked back and forth (because this is a good traveling move) and started reeeeallly sloooooow. When I speed up, I find it helps to think "right right" and "left left" instead of "right left right" and "left right left". If you keep your hips articulated, the lifts sort of fill in on their own.
That's how I learned it at least. It's morning as I write this, so if any of it doesn't make sense, let me know! I'm still a little in morning mode. -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 9:10 AMExcellent post, Bo. My Egyptian style teacher taught me something called the Frankenstein Walk which I found very complicated and am still working on it because of where you lift the leg to travel in relation to where you hip is. Tribal 3/4 has always been easier for me and my tribal teacher taught me to do an up-up on each count. The opposite naturally does it's little accent it's supposed to do from the momentum.
So, to me, it's up-up on the left and an up-up on the right and the end result looks like a simple ghwazee set to three counts per beat. It just works out that way for me. I hope this helps...somebody. :D
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 10:58 PMthats a neat way to explain it!
now my problem is, once i got down 3/4 shimmies down, i almost cant do up! LOL down was tricky to get, because it felt so unnatural, and now up feels wrong!
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 3:33 AMLots of good advice from people here ^_^ I think I understand it better now but the one thing I want to know in relation to what Bo said is - when stepping back and forth, does the hip lift happen on the weighted foot??? I think we might have done a very slow version of the 3/4 shimmy in my egyptian cabaret class a while ago, judging by this description, but we were never told any names for anything or muscles to use in certain movements, and after doing workshops at raqs britannia and working with other teachers I found that kind of thing too annoying to let pass....>_<
I like to know the technical bits hehe.
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 3:54 AMKittyCat, I know how frustrating it is when you don't know which muscles to use to execute certain movements. I had that problem before...but then I attended Suhaila Salimpour's WS and it all became instantly more clear to me! It really was like magic!!!
I really recommend all the DVDs that she's ever made if you're interested in learning more technique. Or go to one of her workshops. It will blow your mind!
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Enni -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 9:50 AMI think I'll have to get a multi-region DVD player so I can get Suhaila's DVD's....I'm from the UK so attending her workshops is pretty much out of the question for me, but as long as I can get a multi-region player I should be able to get the goood dvd's.....
I found that I was even more attracted to Tribal once I realised that all of the tribal-type teachers I'd seen focused very much on the technical bits, the muscles to use, the terminology and everything.....it's so refreshing!!!
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 11:22 AMKittyCat, I´m in Belgium. This summer I went to Paris to attend Suhaila´s WS so for me too it´s a bit tricky (and expensive!) but I just love her so much I´m willing to travel.
I think just by looking at for example the BDSS tribal dancers you can see Suhaila´s influence everywhere. Good thing about her technique is that you can apply it to any dance, anyway the stylisation is up to you...cabaret, tribal, gothic, the same technique can be applied everywhere.
If or rather when she comes to UK the next time check her out...Meanwhile I hope you´ll get her DVDs. It´s so worth buying a new DVD player :D
xxx,
Enni -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 8:04 PMHey Enni, I would say that the BDSS tribal dancers were influenced more by Suhailas mother, Jamila Salimpour, basically the grandmother of ATS. Not trying to insult or anything like that, I just love the history.
As for 3/4 shimmie, I think the most excellent demonstration of this I've found so far is from Kajira Djoumahnas Volume One Instructional American Tribal Style Belly Dance. Kajira breaks down all the moves slowly and is very technical, so you dont miss a beat. I just love her. And there is a wealth of knowledge available on these instructionals, they're the best.
Also, I've noticed in most egyptian classes I've taken, the instructor doesnt often name the steps used in class so I've just started taken a notebook and pen with me and asking what the traditional names are. And I usually will break the moves down on paper as soon as I can so I wont forget them in between classes.
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 1:46 PMKittyCat--
I have Suhaila's Buns DVD and it appears to be regionless (region 0, plays everywhere). I'm from the U.S. and living in the UK, so I play the U.S. disc in a UK television...to be certain, though, you might want to check with your retailer. In fact, the only bellydance dvd from the U.S. I haven't been able to use here is one of Jillina's. -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 2:10 AMHmmmm.....well that *is* an interesting prospect then.....I noticed when I bought Rachel's Practice Companion DVD that it was region 0 but played in NTSC, but I didn't know if any of the others would work in the same way....even if something I buy doesn't work, I'm planning on getting a new DVD player at some point =P
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 9:42 AM<< I think I understand it better now but the one thing I want to know in relation to what Bo said is - when stepping back and forth, does the hip lift happen on the weighted foot??? >>
There are two types of 3/4 shimmies--you can 3/4 shimmy on the up or on the down (to use the terminology that I've learned). The 3/4 on the up is the most common one that you'll see and is what Fat Chance calls the walking shimmy. The hip lift happens on the weighted foot. So, step on the R while you lift the right hip. Then drop, lift, hold, and step L and repeat (same old RLR hold LRL hold while stepping R then L).
3/4 shimmy on the down starts with *dropping* the hip of the weighted leg. So, step R while droping R hip, then lift, drop, hold, and step L and repeat. Some dancers prefer to think of this as lifting the opposite hip as the weighted leg (since, if you drop the R hip, the L goes up. For example, If you like the Suhaila glut squeeze method, you're squeezing the L glut as you step R and vice versa).
One or the other may feel more natural to you, depending on if your hips prefer to lift or drop. I think most find the plain ol' UpDownUp easier than DownUpDown.
Then there's that slide, lift, drop method that others teach. I don't find that as easy, personally.
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 4:25 PMKitty -
The double lift happens on the foot you are moving on. So if you step forward with your right, as soon as that right foot touches down the hip goes "right right" (this explanation is from Sera's East Coast Tribal DVD, and it REALLY helped click it in for me), and as you're finishing the left foot is getting ready to come forward. When the left foot touches down and your weight transfers, the left hip does its two lifts (with the right in between).
I did this slowly for MONTHS before I could speed up, but one day I just *could*. My body finally made sense of it.
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 9:26 AMI learned mine a bit differently. I can see how what Bo is describing might have a look similar to a 3/4, but the way I learned incorporates a hip slide inbetween hip lifts. Try starting by lifting your right hip,then drop the R hip and slide your hips over to the R and then use your left heel to help do a little hip lift and drop on your left hip (which should be sort of tucked in), then slide out to the L, lift your R hip (with the help of your heel) then drop your R heel and slide out to the R, lift the L hip, then slide to the L and lift the R hip ect ect repeat repeat. Keep this going at a slow momentum and then over time try it faster and faster. And then as you get faster, the whole series of movements will become smaller, so that initial slide that was happening when you started slow will begin to look more like a slight shift in weight between R and L.
I hope that makes sense! -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 10:38 AMI learned it this way too... I think this way worked the best for me... but my Egyptian teacher is big on down up down and up down up....
Basically start with your right hip (or left - whichever) and down up down... step now your left hip (down up down) ... etc etc.
or you could do up down up... downs tend to work better for me though..... -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 12:53 AMMy cabaret teacher taught it as up-down-out. Lift the right hip and leg on 1, drop the right hip and leg on 2, push the right hip out on 3, rest on 4, repeat on left.
She taught the shimmy on the down as down-out-up. Push the right hip down on 1, sort of up and out on 2, then the LEFT hip and foot up on three, rest 4, repeat on left (stepping down with the hip on count 5).
We spent probably a quarter of out class time on these for several classes, with everyone going at half speed in a mass across the floor! Kind of like a bunch of bellydance monsters of Frankenstein, but it worked... -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 6:17 AMI would be a little wary of the "up-down-out" because you can strain the connective tissue around the illiac crest of the hip when pushing it out to the side if you're not careful.
I teach 3/4 shimmies using Suhaila's technique: Step right foot, simultaneously squeeze the right glute (count 1), then the left (count 2), then the right again (count 3), hold on 4. Step on the left foot, simultaneously squeezing the left glute, then the right, then the left again, hold on 4.
A 3/4 on the down would be just the opposite (same timing as above): Step on the right foot, simultaneously squeezing the left glute, then the right, then the left. Then step on the left foot, simultaneously squeezing the right glute, then the left, then the right. By using the glutes, you reduce the risk of injury by transferring the movement to an already larger and stronger muscle. Plus, it's a lot easier to travel when you isolate the movement to one muscle at a time. -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 8:08 AMThat's interesting--I'll have to watch that. I should say the "out" is pretty much the same as the "up," it's just that your foot is on the ground at the time (so up but less up, if that makes sense).
Do any of Suhaila's DVDs cover her 3/4 shimmy technique? It sounds like it would be much cleaner in presentation. -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 9:11 AMI'm pretty sure that the 3/4 shimmies are covered on Suhaila's Fitness Fusion "Buns" DVD, in the bonus workout. I think she covers both 3/4 on the up and down. That's a great DVD to have anyway. :D
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 1:05 PMYeees, Mahela! I find that happens pretty naturally as I shift weight... I just didn't know how to explain it as well as you just did. -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 10:35 PMOooo, excellent descriptions. I do find that when I do it slow I tend to loose control of my lower leg due to momentum. You'd think it would be more of a problem going fast but it's not. 3/4's are most fun ;~) -
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Re: Shimmies - they confuse me!!!
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 11:57 AMOh now i understand! you're all talking about (what whe call in Holland) the Egyptian-Walk....
right? (sometimes so difficult to understand for us not englisch-speaking-born dancers)
I've learned it to as; Out-Up-Down....
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